I'd really like to get an mp3 of the Freeze Ray song but other than that the songs were long, overblown, and generally uninteresting. But then I strongly dislike musicals and HATED Once More With Feeling so i may not be the person to ask about that.

But the story was, yeah, meh. And the Captain Hammer character was so flat and one-dimensional it pissed me off.

I want to see more of the Evil League of Evil though. Love Bad Horse. And want to know more about Dead Bowie!

(Reply) (Thread)

You know, this project really could have stood a touch from Mr. Whedon's occasional producer on shows, Ben Edlund.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

He was thanked in the credits, but yeah, more Edlund.

Somebody noted somewhere that they went into this thinking it would be a light frothy comedy thing and then were disappointed when they got punched in the gut. But really, Whedon has now become like unto M Night - everybody should be going in expecting the "twist"!

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

I so did not sit through the credits.

Re: The "twist!"

Back in high school, there was this asshole in my sophomore English class who made punching me in the kidney his life's work. The first few times, it was a shock (apart from painful). This was followed by attempts to just avoid turning my back on him. Finally, it turned to a resigned, "Oh fine, let's just get over it."

That's where I am with Whedon's twists now.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Ben Edlund is listed under the "Thanks To" section of the credits.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

He should have touched it more then. :-/

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

"Show me on the web short where Ben Edlund touched you!"

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

I dunno, I thought the fear of geese thing was a nice touch for Captain Hammer. Why wasn't bad horse a drafthorse? Something nice and imposing. A thoroughbred of sin just ... isn't as buff.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Yeah, it's officially overdone.

(Reply) (Thread)

I'm seeing this and similar opinions popping up on my regular stops around the web. Thanks! Now I don't feel bad about never getting around to watching it.

(Reply) (Thread)

And you know, here's the real heresy. Wait for it. Are you ready?

Whedon's female characters are first and foremost male geek fantasies; or, to be more scathing, they're Whedon's fantasies. Any degree of strength or feminist iconishness about them is coincidence rather than design.

(Reply) (Thread)

You may have something there.

Are you reading the Buffy funnybook? I'm none too fond of the things he's inflicted on Dawn this "season," mainly because it just seems like exploitation.

Of course, he pulled the gut-punch kill in that book as well. The only comic I haven't seen him do that in was "Runaways," and, for all I know, that may be due to editorial mandate.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Not actively, nope.

I vaguely want to go back and read his old Alien script now, just to see.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Buffy's recent "experimentation" there would support Bryant's theory as well, I reckon.

As for Dawn, in this light I'm reminded of a David Sedaris bit on magazines specializing in erotic fantasy about gigantic women...

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

In the words of the ISB:



I think that pretty much sums it up right there.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

That reminds me I should dig out my Ironwood back issues some time soon...

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

I dunno. I liked it. Or rather, I can't say I necessarily liked the ending, but I totally got where it was necessary to the character path he wanted. I remember thinking all the way through it that Dr. Horrible had an amazing gift for rationalizing all of his actions, and although he was sort of a good guy by accident... he really had the makings of a villain underneath it all. I was actually surprised when Whedon pulled the trigger and made it happen that way. Not that he killed Penny necessarily, as she was naught but a glorified McGuffin anyway -- after all, that's all either Horrible or Hammer saw her as, and Hammer not even that much -- but that he went ahead and showed where that would lead.

(Reply) (Thread)

I do get that. But the problem is, this is the same sort of thing he sets up time and time again. It's not fresh anymore. By the end of the first part, I knew exactly where he was going with this and just wanted to cut to the chase.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Hmm. I'm trying to think of the best response for this.

Every storyteller has a story (or two) that they tell. Usually over and over again, with some variation. Sometimes you find people who tell tons of stories that are all different, but that's incredibly rare. There are themes they gravitate to, no matter whether their medium is print or film or screenwriting or poetry or interpretive dance. Most of the time, if you get to know that story well, this will give a certain level of predictability to the telling. You may welcome this or hate it, depending on both skill and your tolerance level for that particular tale, but it's not uncommon.

You're right that this is Whedon's signature, in a way; no matter how long he takes to get to the punchline, he does get there eventually and they're usually critical to the story he wants to tell. I don't think he does it for shock value, though; I think he does it because that's part of his story. Because of that, it doesn't bug me. Then again, I didn't sit through all of Buffy and all of Angel to experience those kicks in the gut personally, so make of that what you will. Could just be you're ready to move on.

Really? I totally wanted Penny to be Bad Horse. :) So fall the dreams of the non-screenwriters.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

I wanted Penny to be Bad Penny, another member of the Evil League of Evil (the homeless shelter was a ploy to turn the homeless into zombies), who was assigned to watch him. She still would've died, but she would have smiled at Horrible, told him "Good job, you're in," and the story would've proceeded as per normal. If he had to kill her at all, that is.

Ideally, I wish he'd stop killing off girls entirely (I forgot about the girl from Buffy's brief lesbian fling in the comic getting offed until just now). On the heels of the Kitty Pryde thing in X-Men, I'm just tired of it.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Pedant: It was Xander's hetro-fling friened, unless I've missed something.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

No, you're right. I just tend to see all secondary characters in the Buffyverse who end up in bed with the main cast as future combat fatalities. Hence my confusion.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

On the heels of the Kitty Pryde thing in X-Men, I'm just tired of it.

I thought that one was different, because it was a Noble Sacrifice and not Refrigerator-y like like Jenny Calendar, or Tara, or Fred, or Wash...

But yes, it's definitely become predictable. I'm surprised how many people have been shocked by this one. I think this one may have been the proverbial straw.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Bad Horse was the best thing in the show.

Now how many points is it to build the power where your minions show up, any time, anywhere, to sing your pronouncements to people?

(Reply) (Thread)

What system? :-D

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

"Serenity" seems appropriate.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

Ummm....what is Dr. Horrible? Is it a comic book? I'm sorry to sound ignorant, but I am on this matter; however, you've mentioned Joss Whedon in the same post...and I mostly like his stuff...

(Reply) (Thread)

It's a short (40 minute) musical he produced during the writers' strike and released online over a three day period. It's no longer available for free but you canget it from iTunes for a few bucks.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

I feel the same. Really, although I enjoy Joss Whedon's dialogue and characters, I don't like his heavy-handed attempts at making the audience feel strong emotions by introducing gratuitous deaths. Instead of experiencing said strong emotions, I just pull out of the story and observe it clinically, from the outside, because I don't like this rough handling. I fell like I can hear a parent figure going: "Don't get attached to that puppy -- we're not keeping it."

It's not that I don't like stories that include tragic deaths of beloved characters; I can think of several books I've read umpteen times and still cry at the sad parts (Cyrano de Bergerac, for example). But somehow all those feel dramatically satisfying, whereas Joss Whedon's "gut-punches" just feel like the bully you mentioned earlier. "Like that character? Yeah? Watch what happens now! How do you like that, huh? Huh?"

(Reply) (Thread)

Well, I'm a bit late to the show, but I've got to go with the unpopular opinion and say that I really liked it, music and everything. Thing is, tho, I really didn't have any expectations of it. I never saw Buffy, only know Whedon from Firefly, and when I saw Whedon + Fillion, I thought "That oughta be cool!" After I saw the first part, I went "Ah, okay, supposed to be comic-booky, the usual stereotypes with a twist, and with that slightly amateurish blog feel." And... it pretty much fulfilled my expectations from there.

Maybe everyone else was expecting something really spectacular, but I sort of took it as Joss's "If I Had Made A Student Film Back in My Distant Dorkhood, This Would Have Been It." I pretty much thought the music kicked butt, too. (Again, never seen that Buffy ep.)

Dr. Horrible is what it is. He did the whole thing for 100K and the actors worked for free. Fox won't touch him now, and other networks didn't like his idea, and he still went ahead and did it. I'm glad he did. If it's a choice between Not-As-Good-As-Buffy-or-Firefly Whedon and no Whedon at all, I'll go with the former. IOW, I'll take my Whedon however I can get it. ;-)

(Reply) (Thread)